Episode 49 - Talking Shop with a Chicago Titan - Tom Shallcross

Quote - 
“Lick 'em tomorrow.”  - Ulysses S Grant 

Bio - 

Tom Shallcross is a born and raised Chicagoan who specializes on the North and Northwest sides of Chicago where he owns and operates roughly 100 units. Tom is the co-host of the Straight Up Chicago Investor Podcast, a licensed agent that specializes in working with investors and has a full-time development company.  Recently Tom joined Drexel Properties to help expand upon Drexel's current 750-unit portfolio. Tom is an active father of four children.

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Tom's Contact:

773.655.4397 

Email: RJ@ejcpartners.com
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Transcript

Lick'em Tomorrow. That's a quote by Ulysses S. Grant I'm really excited that it came about for the show. And it comes through a heavy hitter. Tom Shellcross. I know a lot of you know who he is. I'm really blessed to have him on this show.

I'll give you a quick snippet  for anybody that doesn't know him. Tom shell cross is born and raised.  In Chicago, he specializes in North and Northwest sides  where he owns and operates roughly a hundred units.  Tom is the co host of this straight up Chicago investor podcast.

He's a licensed agent and specializes in working with investors and has a full time development company. Recently, Tom joined Drexel Properties to help expand upon Drexel's current 750 unit portfolio. Tom is an active father of four children. Excited to jump into that. Tom, what's up? RJ, good to talk to you.

Absolutely. We saw each other the other week at the NBA. It was an awesome blessing. How have you been? I've been well, man. Summer in Chicago is great. It's wrapping up here, but always, you know, always a good time. Kids are happy. I'm happy. You know, this is our, uh, this is our prime season here. Yeah. I hear it's like a hundred degrees today.

Oh, it's hot. I was on a roof today too. It's hot. Oh man.  Tom was on rough and that tells you. Being a business owner, you still have to be in operation sometimes.  Tom, give the viewers a background of who you are and how you got started. Sure. Uh, so as you mentioned, Tom shell cross born and raised on the Northwest side of Chicago, and I reside here today.

Um, you know, I, out of college, I took a job that was primarily called cold calling, right? Like one of those. We're 90 percent of the people quit, but the 10 percent of people who make it, you know, have a pretty good going at it. Um, and from there had a decently good corporate, you know, from, from there on, like had good w two jobs was always interested in real estate.

I bought a townhome when I was fresh out of college at 22. Uh, I didn't know what house hacking was, but I had a bunch of buddies living there. So it worked as a house hack where they were paying everything. And it was, wow, this is awesome. And then I sat out probably the greatest. You know, five years to buy real estate, just because it wasn't a priority and looking back on it, it's like, wow, we can be, we can definitely be in a better situation had we made action, but there's nothing you can do about that now.

And then, uh, you know, call it, I don't know, seven, eight years ago, I was doing private lending for Blake McWright, who still a friend of mine, still someone I buy deals from over at express property solutions. And, uh, you know, we started sharing profits and I was seeing what he was making on some of these deals.

And I was saying, okay, this, there's something to this. I should jump in. And, and from there it kind of went just, you know. Both feet in and like, Hey, let's go. Let's start buying some properties. So that's the high level. It went bonkers as you could say. And it's weird how a lot of times it takes multiple experiences in a certain industry to really grasp the power of investing the power of real estate.

 You were saying you missed the prime years. What years was that? So I bought, I bought the townhome in 2007. Right. So like, you know, the thing at some point was worth half of what I bought it for, you know, and I'm 23 going, holy crap, like, what is this? This stinks. Um, and then, you know, went ahead a nice little corporate career and didn't really think about real estate.

And that was, you know, those are the years where you could buy, you know, you buy a two, two unit, three unit in Portage Park for probably under 300 K, which is silly now, because anything distressed is going to be double that. Um, you know, would have been nice to buy back then I didn't. , you know, so that's, you know, I said, I'd probably like call it 2010 to 2014, 15, somewhere in that area.

 And it's like, that's, those are prime years, man. Yeah, they were, but it's the classic story of it's never too late to start.   You had FOMO, you didn't participate, but now you're here, you're operating a hundred units. You just partnered with Jeff  over at Drexel properties, 750 units.

 Thinking back a couple of years ago, or even 2009, would you ever think , you'd be in this position? You know, I, I do, I do set out visions. It's, it's not the exact thing, but it's like, Hey, I'm going to do something with this opportunity I have. Right. And we, we take for granted. You know, just being in the U S we take for granted, we have choices where there's abundance all around us.

And we kind of just go through our day to day with blinders on, not realizing that, so that is, that has been something I've always noticed and said, all right, we're going to do something here, whether it's in the corporate world, whether it's real estate, whether it's something like I've always had that sort of vision, it might not have been as clear as you know, what it is today.

But yeah, like, you know, coming from the sales background, like you kind of have no cap, like there was always an opportunity to go out there and grind and make money. Exactly.  That puts into practice, as long as you have some sort of vision. Whether or not you understand if that vision is clear  if you have a goal you're trying to reach, every day that you're working towards that goal, you're 10 times better than you were the day before.

 Slowly by slowly.  What Sean Kroxannoy says, little by little, a little becomes a lot. And that's where we have Tom now at a hundred units,  which is insane, amazing. Congrats on all that success. Tell me about your operations today, then. What are you currently doing? How do you take on that workload when you have four kids?

Yeah, so to be clear, like this is full time, right? I don't have any sort of w w two job. Real estate is, you know, 100 percent of the income to provide for the family. So there's a couple different call it. I break. I can compartmentalize. That's the right word. You know, there's the existing properties that I own and manage.

And, you know, that's, we have, you know, there's people who do the maintenance, but you still have to do the triage. You have to be proactive. You have to do the renewals. You have to make sure that you're on top of everything. Um, one thing I have going for me, a lot of these are, you know, these are projects that Chris, you know, Chris has gutted, right?

Like these are projects that have new plumbing, have new electric, like to be, to be frank, like my, my portfolio is pretty easy to manage. Um, you know, so it makes that big number is not as daunting, right? Because. You know, you have 750 credit scores living in nice places where all the mechanics have been taken care of.

You know, the work, the amount of work orders you get are probably less than what most people are, right? You spend more money up front. There's a trade off there, whether it's right or wrong, but just, it makes life easier. So, so go ahead. Can I, let me take that step back and explain to our listeners what you just meant there.

So Tom is talking about the repair and maintenance budget that you have to maintain the units. But when you have brand new electrical, brand new plumbing, brand new walls, HVAC, that maintenance up front is lessened because you installed all the new components. Whereas if you buy a dated asset, say something with galvanized steel plumbing, old cloth wiring, That's when you start to get the significant amounts of service calls.

Everybody looks at real estate as being a passive stream of income. And yes, it can be depending on how you operate in this space. What Tom has done is taken away a lot of that instability. of real estate by making sure the assets that he owns and he rents is updated sufficiently so he doesn't get these phone calls.

He doesn't have 10 year old stoves in there that are gonna crap out. He doesn't have pipes that have clogged and congealed and he has to replace.  Everything's new.  Guys, I just want to dial that back and deduce what Tom was saying there because he's a BA and we want you guys to understand how we all operate at a very layman's level.

So sorry about that. Go ahead, Tom. No, all good stuff. Right. And at the end of the day, you know, you, you can say that it sounds great. You're still dealing with people, no matter what you do, the building, like it's still, it's not going to be this magical passive thing you're still dealing with human beings.

Yeah. Um, so, so that's, you know, we're always looking to acquire there in my little neck of the woods. And then for actual income, you know, there's two big streams for me besides the, you know, the rental income coming in, which is almost the annuity and the retirement, the way I look at it. But the actual active income would be, you know, we still, we do high end flips.

And then I have my brokerage license, which I've, I've started to ramp up over the last, you know, year or two, really working with investors in my neck of the woods, you know, looking to do their first house hack, looking to buy their first multifamily building. Um, and between that and the flips, that's kind of how we, we keep the lights on and keep the machine moving forward.

Nice. And then, and then you mentioned at the show as well, you know, we, I, I work with Jeff over at Drexel. There's a small chunk of the portfolio that I operate for him and then working with him to try to find, you know, Hey. Can we go buy another, you know, a 40 unit car, you know, courtyard type building, as opposed to the, you know, three units and six units that I'm scooping up.

Yeah. So that's a partnership to which you want to scale the types of assets you're purchasing. Because currently it's single family homes, two to three, four flats, maybe six nines. What's the largest building you have? Outside of Drexel, the largest thing I have is an eight unit. Okay, so everybody that's listening to the podcast, I want to let you know how successful Tom is, but how much he sees value in relationships and actually building a slow relationship by working for Drexel properties.

He's not coming in, he's, he doesn't have the ego on his shoulders saying, I'm I know everything, you know, let's partner and let's get a 40 unit. No, Tom is working slowly, diligently proving who he is and proving that a successful partnership can work by working for. Uh, direct sold properties. So I just want to say that guys, second, I do want to go back to where you're saying you're a broker because Tom's an amazing real estate broker, real estate agent, whatever you want to call them.

So we always tell people. when you're trying to buy a specific asset, make sure you're working with an expert in that field. So when you are trying to buy your first multifamily, don't use your aunt who traditionally sells condos downtown Chicago because she's simply not going to know the nuances of being a multifamily broker and all the nuances and risks that come with that purchase.

So Tom, do you want to go ahead, use this moment? How can people get ahold of you to leverage your expertise, your knowledge, and simply your passion in real estate? How can somebody get ahold of you? Uh, sure. I'm, you know, I'm all over social media. We can link to that. You can throw the cell out there. I'm a 773 655 4397.

So you can hunt me down that way. I'm beeping it out. It starts ringing now. Uh, no, but you know, we, if I help, you know, it's a small box. It's, Hey, if you're looking at North and Northwest side. You know, if our goals kind of align, then yes, like a hundred percent, it's almost binary, yes, can absolutely help.

You will help you leverage the team that I've used for all my purchases, you know, whether it's contractors, attorneys, whatever, inspectors. And then if you're looking to buy something in, you know, East Garfield Park or whatever, cool, like, I can refer you to three or four other people that'd be happy to help, right?

Like, I kinda, I know what I'm very good at and I don't really stray from there. Yeah, I like that too. So, going along with having that nuanced knowledge, It's also the networks that you share specifically with people that want to share and give and provide value. There's a lot of people out there that are very selfish and don't want to provide help when it comes to outside things or.

help when it comes to, the possibility of degrading their position. I guess that's the best way I could put it.  That's why I really liked Tom. Tom and Mark have been pivotal in my career as a real estate investor. Always super nice, friendly guys. Amazing to see them out in the wild, in the public, like the NBOA that we were talking about.

 On this show, Tom, I'm going to pivot because we always want to get to know you as an operator and talk about the mindsets that you've developed.  When you were not participating in those amazing years of real estate, was it limiting beliefs? Was it lack of knowledge? Was it you weren't passionate about it yet?

Let's go back to those days. Yeah. And I don't have this whole, like, Hey, I'm down to my last dollar type of story that some of these people have, but you know, I, I had a good corporate gig and I was doing well. Right. So it was, it was, you know, where I got involved was, okay, this is one way I can make a return, you know, to, to give, you know, be the hard money lender on these small, small flips, right.

Give someone a hundred K, get 110 back, you know, eight months later. Right. So it wasn't like this well thought out plan. And then you started seeing the numbers coming back and say, wait a minute, there's something here. And then once I dove in, it was like, Hey, this is. This is cool. And this is also something where you're active, you're out there, you're not sitting behind a desk and it appealed to me, right?

And then you find bigger pockets, you read the books and just like everyone else, you start going. How did, how did you get into your first deal outside of that condo or whatever you bought in college? We, man, so I, so I had Blake and I knew right away, I needed someone to do the rehabs and I went, you know, Chris is still my partner to this day and does the majority of.

The rehabs I do on all of my stuff. And I knew him through a mutual friend. He actually built a bar in my house. You know, that was, that's, that was my, uh, you know, 10 years earlier. So that was my, my minimal, I knew about him, but it was the one guy I knew in my network who had a GC license. So I, I reached out to him, hadn't talked to him in probably seven or eight years and said, Hey, would you be interested in flipping a house?

He said, sure. You know, whatever, man. And we did, I think we, I think I put something on their contract like two days later, like, all right, let's try this. And, you know, multiple years later, how many projects do you think you've done roundabout?

So, right. I just had to put something together for an investor on the North side. We've done over 50 rehabs, whether we've held them or flipped them. It's like 50 something. And then we probably did almost. I don't know, 30 on the south side when we're down there. So somewhere, those numbers are probably, you know, plus or minus 10%.

Okay. So I have a great question for you, but not before I uncover what you just said in that message. So you knew Chris for about seven, eight years and had never talked to him on the, in between you had a goal and somehow you dug back in your networking Rolodex and you leverage the networks you already had.

That's one huge mistake that newbies do not do. You have somebody's number. You have these established networks. Reach out to your current networks. They're going to be the best form of support for you because they know who you are. You already have an existing relationship. Two, those people are not going to give you a chance if you're an asshole.

Tom was able to call up Chris seven, eight years later, never talking to him before, but because of the cordial  interactions they had previously, Chris is like, sure, why not fast forward five, 10 years later, here they are. They got 80 flips 50 on North side, 30 on South side. Tom owns a portfolio of a hundred units.

I'm sure Chris's partner and a lot of those, but that just goes to show a leverage your current networks. Don't sleep on that. Don't go out and try to build new ones. Because you have an existing network currently. Two, how you show up, how you appear, and how you come to the table really matters. I, when I bought my first property, I called up a window siding contractor, who was my boss when I was 18.

I didn't buy this property until like 33, 35 years old. He picks up the phone and he says, yes, I, I remember who you are. I'll be there next week gave me an amazing deal and I still work with them today. So those are the types of things that people sleep on, you know, overnight success. No, it's how Tom's been showing up every single day of his life.

And he's leveraging the networks, that he already had exist.   I'll jump off my soap box here, Tom, through all those projects. What was the worst one? And did you ever almost throw in the towel? I mean, there's a few, there's a few candidates here, right? Uh, I'd say here, here's the worst, the worst scenario we had was probably.

You know, so everyone remembers COVID, right? Like we, you know, as much, we try to block it out and end up being great for the real estate industry and things got back on track pretty quickly. But if you remember, like March, 2020 into April, 2020, I mean, it was shut down. Right. There was no essential worker.

There was no nothing. And we were sitting there, we'd rent, you know, we were pretty heavy there. We probably had about seven or eight deals going, I think two or three under contract to sell where the sellers obviously, you know, they thought the world was ending, they're dropping out. You know, and then on these bigger projects, you know, your, your holding costs, your loan can be, you know, six, seven grand a month.

Right. So do some math here. You know, you got a bunch of these going on. You got a portfolio of however many tenants you start doing some math, like, all right, what if they, none of them pay rent. Right. That's a possibility. And you realize no matter how liquid you are, like, dude, this thing could end pretty badly.

Right. These guys can't go to work. I still have to pay my loans. I don't know what's going to happen. I have these deals. I, you know, that were ending that are not ending now because no one wants to buy, you know, that's, that's a, there's a three, four week period there where it's like, dude, like what's going to happen, right?

This is not a great position to be in. Right. That was probably, and we kind of look back at it and laugh now because. The market goes bonkers and ends up being the best year, you know, probably any of us had, right? Like it was, everything ended up being better than expected, but I can clearly remember those, you know, that three, four week period of just like, dude, I, it doesn't matter how liquid you are like this.

These numbers are going to go pretty quickly. Yeah. So what did you do to battle that? How did you prepare for the dark ending, if it were to happen? Yeah, we did. We did a couple of things like, right. The, the, the deals we had to sell, we got them done. Right. Even if we had to discount a little bit and we thought we'd make X and now we're just limping out with a small profit.

We got them off the books. So your exposure goes from whatever seven deals, the four, you just get them done. So you're not exposed. You can't be taken out by this black swan. And then with the tenants, you just get out in front of it. You know, and I think most operators did the same thing, you know, and then if they really did need issues, you were the one saying, this is how you get rental assistance.

This is how you do it. This is how you You know, just being a human being and trying to get out in front of all this. So even if a couple of people are going to take advantage of the situation, you're still going to be in an okay spot. Yeah. I like that in terms of, and then immediately, you know, this is, this is the complete mindset of a real estate agent or, you know, a real estate junkie.

And then immediately we went and bought a bunch of stuff, right. Cause we're like, all right. Yeah, you almost get over optimistic when you survive these things. I think everybody was in those shoes. I had a flip going on moving into March 2020. It was awful. Uh, nine, 12 month project turned into 16, 18 months.

It's pretty rough. , Yeah, we had, we had things open. The city wouldn't come and inspect. Like you just had this. Yeah. It's just like, what do you do? What do you do? Did you do anything to prepare mentally? Yeah. I mean, mentally you realize like no one in my family is dying, right? Like there's people waking up that don't know where, you know, in other parts of the world that are waking up, not knowing where they're getting their next meal.

It's like, you know, suck it off, like deal with this. And worst case scenario, let's say you lose all of this. You can build it back up, right? It would suck. It would be humiliating. It's fine. You could figure it out. Like, you're not, you're not dying. You don't have cancer. That's, that's one of the biggest things here is the ability, once you're a high level achiever, a high level player, you create the mindset that it doesn't matter what happens, because I could always go back out and rebuild.

The second thing that you're talking about there, is gratefulness, get nobody's dying, everybody's going to survive this, even if you have to rebuild, it will be okay. So that's putting the positive thoughts forward. Not I'm going to lose everything hand hands in your face, like throwing in the towel. The one thing that we know is if you're consistent and you consistently move forward, you do your due diligence, mitigate your risk and are aware of all the outside components, then you could be prepared for the worst case scenario.

 I think you can tell the audience about this a lot when You're representing a buyer. How often,  I found this so tough,  talking buyers out of buying something because it's not the right fit, the numbers don't make sense, how do you battle that as a broker? Yeah, and I, I can't remember who told me, but I, I think it might have been Mark, it might have been someone else, it might have been Bri, but someone said like, From the get go when I started, like you got to treat that person like it's your brother, right?

So would you want your brother to buy that deal? It's like, well, no, there's these flaws, right? X, Y, Z, like, let's move on to the next one, right? You, you, you are getting paid a commission to be, you have a fiduciary responsibility to get this thing right, right? And if you're. You want that person to buy 10 more houses, and they're not going to do that if you just set them up to fail or set them up with some risks that they're not aware of, like, that's your job.

That's the whole reason you get paid. Like it's a very low bar in that industry. Um, so, you know, I, I think if you talk to anyone I've worked with, like, yes, like we've definitely have walked away from plenty of deals. Like you, you are the one that is keeping emotions in check because they're getting emotional.

You are the one, you're the gatekeeper, right? You're the one who's been through the process before that knows what to expect, that knows how to handle those hairy situations. So that goes to show why you need to be with a specialist, somebody who's dealt with all the nuances and two, you got to be able to trust and have a relationship with that person that is representing you.

Again, like I said, there's a lot of snakes out there in the garden. You got to find the people that will lead you to the light, people like Tom, people like Jason, Mark. There's so many titans of the industry that a lot of people are afraid to approach, but you got to understand we're just people. We are just regular people and we care about the business that we do, which is why we've made it to a level that people don't understand or haven't seen yet because they're new in the industry.

So if you ever see Tom out in public, say hi. He's not gonna bite off your hand. He's not gonna tell you to go F off. I mean, that's just not who we are. The reason we've been able to create such amazing things is because we're human, we understand people, emotions, and we, for the lack of better terms, want to treat everybody like they're our brother or our sister, especially when it comes down to business.

Yeah, a hundred percent. So I know, so you do a lot of intramurals, you have four kids, you got the, you work with Drexel now, how do you keep yourself sane? Where's your safe space? Safe space, man. Like I, there's a couple, uh, it's, you know, when you're with the kids and for those who have kids, like the way they see the world is very refreshing.

Mine are young. Right. So the way like a six year old or an eight year old sees the world and what's important to them. And you kind of remember like, Oh. Yeah, screw this deal. Like it's not, it's not, it's not that big of a deal. Um, just the, the carefreeness, the, the waking up every morning of just like, oh, my toys are still here.

It's going to be a good day. Um, so that, that's always refreshing. I still play music. I used to play like an actual bands, but that's like the getaway of, you know. Hey, give me 20 minutes to jam out here and just be in my own zone. So there's a couple of things, a couple of different things. I'm a, I'm a drummer.

That'd probably be the thing I'm actually good at. I could totally see it. And then I can, I can fake people who don't know music that I can, I can fake to them that I can play the guitar and the piano. Oh, that's cool. All right. So those are passions, hobbies. What I really liked that you said is the fact that there's learning lessons everywhere.

That's a huge thing too. A lot of people are afraid to approach people like Tom because they have this notion that they have to add value. Well, you don't even understand that sometimes adding value is just not having a repetitive conversation, not being an awkward person in social situations, or even adding value at this point, what he said about his kids.

Sometimes he sees them and the way that they treat the world, he's like, yeah, screw this deal. This deal doesn't even matter when it comes to the large scheme of things. They're happy, they're grateful for the small things in life. And oftentimes that's adding value. It doesn't matter. How much we know the success we've achieved a lot of times, there's a checks and balances where you get slapped in the face and you're like, I forgot about that.

That is such an amazing way to think about the world, such an amazing way to treat a situation. So adding value could be as simple as that. And don't bring the same conversations to us six months apart. And cause that's what I, that's my pet peeve. I'm going to be the greatest wholesaler in the world.

They disappear for a year. They come back. I'm going to be the greatest holes. Well, where were you the last year? How many deals have you done? What are you doing? So I feel like you had something to add. I was just gonna, I have a tangible example as you were talking. So like, we were up in Thorpe County last week and like, I took the eight, the eight year old on a, on a wave runner and like, I don't care how good of a deal I find.

Like, I don't think I'll ever have that level of excitement. I don't know what in the world would get me that excited. Like, just right. Like, there's no, you, you can spoon feed me the greatest deal in Chicago right now. And like, I'd be very happy. I'd be awesome. I'd be stoked. But like, I don't think I'd be able to match that excitement of an eight year old on a wave runner.

Like it just, it doesn't exist. It's like, it's on another level. And what's amazing about that is bringing the fact that at a certain point, Money doesn't make anything better. Money doesn't make you happier, doesn't make the quality of your life better. At a certain point, you realize, and all these high achievers realize, they get to a point where they're like, An extra deal, extra cash, that doesn't matter to me as much as happiness, as seeing my eight year old so happy on jet ski, as seeing my children, watching them grow up, and them wake up in the mornings and being super excited, super stoked, super happy.

So, my son's actually going down for a nap. I don't know if you saw him, or heard him a couple times. He's in his crib screaming and playing with himself, and that's another sign, right? He's down for a nap, but he's so excited, and he's just playing with himself, and he's happy to be. Existing. So, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. So tell us about give us the hardest thing that you've ever had deal in your with in your life. Real estate, not real estate, the mindset that you had during that and Now that you're here, knowing that it would eventually all be okay, how did you deal with it? That was deep. Yeah, Jesus. I, to, to start with like the letter, like how do you deal with this or any of the situations?

Like it's all perception, right? We've kind of hit on that a couple of times, but you know, you're gonna, the sun's coming out tomorrow. Right? Like the quote we gave at the beginning, it's, hey, you just, you go on and it's the next day. What do we do? It's over like. What is the next step and, and how do we take it from here?

Uh, I think it's Gary, the Gary Keller quote of like the secret to getting head is to getting started. The secret to getting started is taking something complex or confusing and breaking it down to what is the next step. Right. And from there, okay, we got to plow forward and we'll one step at a time gets where we want to be.

So going back to like directly answer your question, I would say, man, the, the, those first couple of weeks of COVID were crazy. Like you start thinking like, man, we are going to. I'm gonna run out of money. Like, here I am thinking I'm king of the world and like, if this thing continues, like, we're just bleeding money every week.

Like, what's gonna happen here?  You know, I, outside of real estate, I can't think of, like, that, I don't have, like, that cancer story or that, you know, crazy, you know, Lost a friend at a young age story. Like I don't have anything that I would put up there. That's like, Oh, holy crap. How do you survive this?

You know, just, just the usual struggles at the time seems so immense, but then you look at them like two, three years later, it's like, I didn't remember what was the, you know, you wake up, if you looked in your journal a year, a year ago, three years ago, five years ago, you're stressing about something, None of it's relevant today.

Like all these problems, they, they come and they go, you get through them. And then the next one comes up and you gotta, you gotta look at it that way. Yeah. I like that Gary Keller quote that you said, it reminds me of a statement. It's two words, very powerful. You could say one day, or you can say it's Day one, just get started.

First of all, like you're never going to be able to move forward like I was saying when it came to, um, moving forward at all is you just got to get started. Imperfect action. Imperfect massive action, I believe, is a quote that I heard there. So, and with everything else, it sounds like you've already had a level head to be able to understand the perception of the situation.

But at the same time, what I know from you. Just knowing you. You're doing your due diligence. You're, you're, you're checking all these sheets. You're understanding your specific situation so that you can handle everything as it comes. Control what you can control. Don't let the things outside your control worry you until you're actually facing that problem.

That's a huge, huge, huge thing here. And it's really a skill set that everybody has to learn. A lot of people have high anxiety levels, high stress levels, and that's because they allow the what ifs to control their thoughts. Don't let the what ifs control your thoughts. Control what you can control, and as it comes, deal with the situation.

That's going to put you in the best position possible. But as it comes, controlling what you can control is being prepared for anything that comes down that pipeline. And that's one of the things that these amazing high achievers like Tom, we do. Maybe it's not so conscious. But we're very diligent in what we do.

Again, it's not overnight success. It's not,  perfect timing for the most part. It's really being diligent and being prepared for anything that comes down the line. Do you have anything to add? Yeah, there's, I can't remember who did the quote, but it's, you don't get, uh, you don't become great in a day. You become great daily.

You just, you got to put in the work and everyone's looking for the shortcut or the, the quick fix. And Mark and I always talk about this. Like, you gotta go put in the work. You gotta want to do it. There's this illusion we have of, Oh, you know, I'm just going to do this and I do X and I get Y and I'm happy.

And it's success isn't something like. Linear path. There's no, there's no syllabus that you just follow and it works and and you gotta be able to roll with it. Yep, exactly. And that's the biggest thing. It's not a linear path. You could have all the best mentors in the world. Your specific situations will come about differently.

It's all about how you handle it and the mental preparedness you have to. Combat those things. I love it. Let's move on to our fun round. How about that? Did you know we had this round? I don't think you did. You know what? When I, when I booked the time, I went and listened to a few episodes just so I wouldn't be caught off guard.

Oh, he knows it. Fun round. Crap. Okay. So you talked about doing due diligence. Here we go. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that helps. It's useful. So the question I always start with is what's a weird food that you loved as a kid and would you still eat it today? Yeah. So weird food is I actually put like, you take a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and I like putting like M& Ms or something goofy in there.

And I still do that to this day.

M& Ms, peanuts, peanuts, or just chocolate. It's awesome. It's sort of like,  putting potato chips in your deli sandwich. I really love that. That's amazing. Okay, so you would still do it today. Oh yeah. Regular M& M's or peanut? Well, uh, no one else in the house likes regular. Anything besides regular, that's all we got here.

How would your best friend describe you as a kid? As a teenager? Uh, I was, I was competitive.  The work ethic, like I, you know, like in sports I always I always got the coach's award or the, the hustle thing. Like that was always me. So that's, they, they, you know, tongue in cheek say like, yeah, hard worker and then probably make fun of me for it.

That's awesome. I was the opposite. People saw me as somebody that would pick something up and lose interest. So I'm like, Oh, all right. Everybody can make it. That's just to say anybody can make it just change how you come to the table. If you were stranded on Desert Island, how would you keep yourself entertained?

You could have any object, just no other humans. I would take, uh, I'd probably take a guitar. I'd probably take, you know, a few books that would, you know, some, something stoic, something to really change the mindset and just, alright, here's where we are and let's, let's deal with this. I think that, I think that gets me through the day.

I'm, I'm actually reading Ray Dalio's principles right now. Have you read that? I have not. Mark's got me on the Ryan holiday train though. So that's been, that that's been top of mind for me. And that's actually where that, that grant lick them tomorrow quote I first heard, and I was like, Oh, that's so good.

Oh, awesome. Lick them tomorrow, guys. What's your favorite thing doing your off time? I got the four kids. That's that takes up a lot of time, right? And it's, and it's awesome. They're, they're all. As they grow, they all have individual interests. So it's not just like, Hey, I can take all four of them real fast.

I got to take, you know, this one likes to do X. This one likes to do Y. I still play, I play softball two nights a week in the summer that just wrapped up here. And that's what I'm with the same guys for, you know, over 20 years. And it's a blast and something I hope I can do for as long as possible. And then I'm still active, man.

I still play pickup basketball. I'm still, still out there pretending I'm 22. That's a great, your health is your wealth. And I imagine it, it boosts your energy levels and everything you do. Do you have a workout routine? Yeah, I'm pretty good. We have a, I made like a little crappy hotel gym type of gym in my basement.

So I got, I got that to go to, and I'm, I'm pretty diligent about them. I'm decent. Good, good. That's awesome. Give us the most beautiful place you've ever visited. So I got my, my last corporate job, I got to go out to Switzerland and I can't remember, it was probably two hours outside Zurich. I can't remember, it was a little, little town, but you're probably about 10, 000 feet up or something crazy.

Like it was, you're way up there in the altitude.  And like at night you would see, you would see the Milky Way. You would see like, You know, just stuff you don't see in Chicago. And like, I never left Chicago. So like, this was just mind blowing to me. Like just absolutely insane. Yeah, that's awesome., give us a message you wish you could tell your younger self take more risk.

Like I'd always been in. I always liked taking risks. I always, you know, it was, it was something I did, but I wish I would even done more right. You're going to look back on your deathbed and be like, you're not going to be, Oh, I'm glad I played this safe. Like, you're always going to wish you had done more.

Right. And there's an abundance of opportunity everywhere. Like, man, just take some shots. And if you screw up, it's fine. Like, I was probably a little more gun shy than I 25 year old me. I wish wouldn't have been so gun shy. Yeah, and we, so I just had a very interesting conversation, and it was about risk tolerance, and understanding that there's a different level of tolerance to risk, depending on what you're doing.

This person I was talking about  he loved risk when it came to physical things, but when it came financially, he was super scared and afraid of everything. And there's also different,  risk tolerances as you go through your career. If I wouldn't known what I know now, I probably wouldn't have bought.

The first deal that I had, or at least I would have been a lot more hesitant because I knew that it needed a lot more work, but because I didn't understand my wrist and my wrist tolerance was  more risk adverse back then we bought the property, it turned out to be one of our most lucrative buy.

So that's just an understanding for everybody that's listening. Be true to yourself, understand your risk, understand that risks.  Risk adjust, depending where you are in your career, who you are, and it's also different in different aspects of your life. So you got to be true to yourself to have a clear understanding of who you are and how to move forward.

Last thing, what does the future look like for you? You know, don't take this as a lack of ambition, but it's, it's, it's hopefully a lot of the same. Like I like the path I'm on here. You know, and then I, I don't need to get to, Hey, I need to own a thousand doors or whatever, you know, there's the quote, the comparison is the thief of joy.

Like I, I want to keep plugging along the way we're going and, you know, wake up and be 50 and be like, wow, like, look what I have here. , so, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot more of the same and that's not, that's, I don't want that to be taken as lack of ambition. It's just. This is the path. Like, I feel like this is the right path, the right balance and, you know, go out and do it every day.

I believe you connected with a perfect person for that, because I was asking Jeff about his portfolio and he said, you know, I never had these huge grand visions. I just, every year I'd buy a building, I'd buy two buildings, two buildings turned into three or four buildings. And now, now he wakes up. , at the time, I believe it at a 600 unit portfolio.

Now you guys are at seven 50. Is that cell phone? That's seven 50 within the Drexel properties portfolio. That's within the portfolio accounting, third party management. I think it's like 500 and two 50. So it is mostly owned and man, he's, he's absolutely right. Like that's someone, if you're younger and.

Looking to take over the world. Like, it's a great person to talk to. Like, he just talked at, you know, your Chicago Multifamily Meetup this Monday. We're recording this on Wednesday. And it's very, very good messages, right? You know, time is the biggest asset. Like, that's what you take away from this is. Dude, you buy two good buildings a year.

You're fine. You get to live the life you want to live and you know He's living proof of that. So yeah, absolutely great. Great parallel to make their Comparison is the thief of joy and I cannot tell you guys how many times looking back We were not happy with where we were at, because we're comparing ourselves to where we should be.

Well, success is in a linear path, like we've been saying this whole time, and that quote is It's something everybody should keep in the back of their mind. Comparison is the thief of joy because nothing will ever be good enough. No amount of money, no amount of time will be good enough. If you're constantly comparing yourself to what somebody else has, comparing yourself to what you think you should be doing, just be happy and diligent in the current path that you're on.

So. Tom gave out his cell phone earlier. I'm going to let him reiterate one more time, Tom, how do people get ahold of you? How do people get ahold of the podcast? Are you looking for guests? How can we help you out? Awesome. So I was going to play a funny prank and just give out one of my friends phone numbers.

So you have to deal with all these random real estate calls, but I won't, I won't do that. 773 655 4397. , yeah, the podcast, straight up chicagoinvestor. com. If you're looking to get more information on Chicago, if you're looking for free resources, we have it all there. Take a look. If you're someone that would provide value to our listeners, we'd love to hear from you.

, yeah, man, like anything, you know, I, I truly love this city. That's the whole reason we started this podcast is, you know, just to shine the light on the people who are killing it here. So if you have a good story to tell, if you have a struggle to tell, that's going to help someone else. We'd love to hear it.

I can't reiterate how amazing that podcast is over 300, 000 downloads. Now, is that right? They're moving on up to 400, 000 downloads. They've been listened to. From multiple countries across the world. And myself has seen extreme value from listening the podcast, but also being a guest on the podcast. And I'm going to bring it back to this.

I would never gotten that opportunity if I was super selfish, if I showed up, didn't add value,  constantly had my ego in front of me, you got to find and connect with people like us,  sort of, it sounds selfish, but you got to connect with people that you vibe with very, very well, that match your emotional intelligence, and  do and have the things that you want to be doing the aspirations, ambitions, and are on the correct career path.

 One thing I'll leave the audience with is. Too many times as a new entrepreneur, you try to force others to think the way that you are thinking. That's why typically a lot of entrepreneurs fail because they're looking at the wrong resources. To be their confidence boost, to be their partners, to be a sounding board.

 If I'm talking to my mom about real estate, she loves me and she has all good intentions for me, but taking her advice. Probably isn't the best thing do you got to connect with other people that are actually high achievers in the industries that you want. This is a mindset podcast.   We lay down a lot of the same ground rules, but I just want to leave you with that guys.

If you loved what you heard here, please like subscribe, send Tom message,  send me a message and we'll see you guys later. Awesome. Thanks RJ. Appreciate the opportunity.  We'll see ya.